Why did the Guptas head for the exit? - TechCentral

Why did the Guptas head for the exit?

The Guptas made a hasty departure from South Africa for Dubai, pictured, late last week

The Guptas made a hasty departure from South Africa for Dubai, pictured above, late last week

So, the Gupta brothers have called South Africa quits.

Although it is not really surprising, as virtually everyone but the president and his family have taken a hostile stance against the family, the swiftness of their departure has raised a few eyebrows.

The decision to search for new opportunities in the Middle East is indicative that the family has accepted that their future participation in South Africa has hit a cul de sac.

It probably was not political pressure that resulted in their decision to depart. Although there was massive pressure on the Guptas, following revelations that the family had such a hold on the president that they could influence the appointment of cabinet ministers, the final nail in their South African coffin seems to be have been the reaction from corporate South Africa.

The Gupta operations were brought to an abrupt halt after several commercial banks merely closed their respective business’ bank accounts. Some firms even publicly justified their decision to sever ties based on their seeing significant risk of association. The firms known to have severed ties include Barclays Africa, First National Bank, KPMG and Sasfin.

The Guptas’ response was swift.

Atul Gupta and Varun Gupta resigned as directors from Oakbay Resources last week. Duduzane Zuma, the president’s son, also resigned as a director from Oakbay subsidiary Shiva Uranium.

It now appears that hours later they boarded to Dubai and waved South Africa goodbye.

It is clear that the brothers had undergone a quick change of heart. On 23 March, Atul Gupta still proudly proclaimed in an interview with the Times of India: “We have no intention of leaving South Africa. We love this country and it is our home. We believe people will sooner or later understand the anticompetitive political campaign going on against us intended to marginalise our businesses. We have no intention of leaving South Africa.”

The Guptas responded on Sunday to an invitation to comment. Victoria Geoghegan of Bell Pottinger said on behalf of Oakbay: “The Gupta family has no further comment at this time, and will not be detailing the individual movements of family members. The onus is now on the business establishment and the banks to do the right thing.”

President Jacob Zuma

President Jacob Zuma

Corporate South Africa

There could not have been a more aggressive or brutal reaction from the banks than to close the family’s business bank accounts. This is unprecedented in South Africa and, as any business owner would know, it renders an operation dead in the water.

The big question is why the banks cut the cord. Banks are not always overly proactive to close accounts and for Barclays Africa and FNB to close the Gupta accounts within a few months of each other is telling. It almost seems as if this decision was orchestrated.

Banks are subject to strict regulations to act on and report suspicious and/or potential illegal activity in bank accounts. It is therefore critical for banks to provide some clarity on their respective decisions. The reasoning behind the decisions may also have had a bearing on why the Guptas left South Africa in such a hurry.

Even though there are many allegations and rumours, the Guptas have not been found guilty of any crime. The Hawks also don’t appear to be busy with an investigation.

What now for the Gupta empire?

The developments of the past few weeks have left the various Gupta businesses in a very peculiar position. The actions of the banks and KPMG have given the operations leper status.

It is not only the case for the existing businesses, but also the ambitious expansion plans in the fields of nuclear and coal. Their ally, Zuma, is on the ropes. It seems as if Zuma’s alleged attempts to channel government business their way, coupled with the small matter of his unconstitutional behaviour, has seriously dented his authority and may put an end to his presidency.

The Guptas apparent attempt to influence the appointment of ministers is central to recent developments. Although the Guptas seemed to have succeeded in the appointment of Mosebenzi Zwane as minister of mining resources, they failed at the most important hurdle of them all — the capture of national treasury. If Des van Rooyen was the minister of finance today, the current narrative would probably have been completely different.

Atul Gupta resigned as chairman of Oakbay Investments

Atul Gupta resigned as chairman of Oakbay

Gupta businesses

Although the Guptas have resigned as directors and departed from South African shores, the family still remains the dominant shareholders in their various businesses. Their continued involvement in these businesses will keep dark clouds of suspicion over them. It will therefore be interesting to see whether they sell these shares in the near future.

It may also be safe to say that the Guptas will not receive the massive government contracts they vied for while Zuma was untouchable. (The constitutional court judgement could not have come at a worse time for the family.)

This is certainly the case for prospective supply contracts for uranium and coal.

The Guptas have the following business interests:

Sahara Computers
This business was founded in 1994 and is a wholesale supplier of computer and related products in South Africa. This business also sponsors several sports teams and has naming rights on several sports stadiums such as Sahara Stadium Kingsmead.

Mining assets
The family’s mining assets are housed in Oakbay Resources & Energy. It was listed on the JSE in November 2014 and has a market capitalisation of approximately R19bn, although its shares trade very infrequently. The Guptas hold 80% of their roughly 93% stake in the company through a holding company called Oakbay Investments.

Oakbay Resources & Energy’s main asset is the Shiva gold and uranium mine in which it has a 74% interest. Shiva acquired the business of Tegeta Exploration and Resources in December 2015, which also owns coal mines that supply Eskom with coal, and which is in the process of acquiring the Optimum coal mine from Glencore.

In 2010, the Gupta family and Duduzane Zuma tried to acquire a 21,4% mining right in Kumba’s Sishen mine. The family owned the company Imperial Crown Trading (ICT) which applied for this mining right. The case went all the way to the constitutional court where it was found that ICT did not qualify for ownership.

Another controversial mining deal is Tegeta. Tegeta is in the process of acquiring the Optimum coal mine from Glencore for R2,15bn and it is alleged that mining minister Zwane facilitated this transaction. The profitable operation of the Optimum mine would depend on a favourable supply contract from Eskom. Duduzane Zuma owns 30% of Tegeta.

The Gupta family also has a large uranium mine. There are some allegations that Nhlanhla Nene was fired because he resisted such an expensive nuclear commitment, which would have benefited the Guptas.

Defence contractor
The Guptas also owns VR Laser Services, which is a partner of Denel’s Asian subsidiary Denel Asia. Denel Asia is set to market Denel’s defence products in the region. Duduzane Zuma also owns 25% of VR Laser Services.

Media
The Guptas also own The New Age newspaper and the news channel ANN7. The New Age has been criticised for hosting a series of breakfast events which are sponsored by government departments.

  • This article was originally published on Moneyweb and is used here with permission

68 Comments

  1. Laughing Leprechaun on

    Two of the Guptas may have relocated to Dubai but so what? These days anyone can do almost anything with a click of a mouse key as has been illustrated by the so called Panama Papers and leaked Snowden documents.

    That the local banks and an auditor got huffy about it means nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Guptas already have a work-around in place.

    Never forget, EVERYONE has a price – it’s just a matter of finding out what it is and then deciding if one is prepared to pay it.

  2. Let us not forget, it was the meddling of the Gupta’s and Zuma that cost the country 500 billion in December. If we have crashed them for a few billion then corporate South Africa has done right by South Africa.

  3. Yup, the Zupta Finance Ministers took about 15% off my neighbor’s retirement income as a direct result of that insane greed and direct meddling in this land’s affairs.
    It was a great day for South Africa when those Biznessmen departed our airspace that’s for sure!
    Sadly, the internet means that they are still able to exert their evil influence on the usual suspects even now.

  4. Eric Martinsich on

    the attack on the Gupta family is against our constitution. is it ok to do things against the constitution by forcing a family out the country but be enraged because the President had not fully upheld the constitution

  5. Greg Mahlknecht on

    Nobody forced them out the country. People made accusations and they fled. If they were innocent they should have proven it. If you’re innocent, you don’t run away from billions of rands after being called a few ugly names.

    Remember that just 10 days ago, the Guptas came out with a statement that they’re innocent and are going nowhere, they’ll stay and fight these nasty false allegations. That was after the main attack – in the past 10 days, the heat has actually been off them and on to Zuma – they obviously wanted to get out of the country so that they didn’t end up like Shaik – taking the fall for our Glorious Leader, and fake being sick for the rest of their lives to stay out of jail.

  6. Greg Mahlknecht on

    I did not. Googling “gupta death threat” doesn’t pick up anything – got links or google search terms I can use to see these stories? If true, that would indeed change things.

    The only thing that “gupta death threat” brings up is that Jonas got death threats before he came out against the Guptas.

  7. HAHA DSTV, does not give a dam who they do business with, or how much it will cost the stupid cutomer, just make money,money,money,money!!!

  8. Greg Mahlknecht on

    Oh come on, a 2 month old report about the EFF trash talking the Guptas, and then the Guptas won in court. That’s a million miles away from imminent “threats on their children”. Their families weren’t mentioned. I know that Malema’s a dimwit and a thug, but I’m not sure even he would stoop so low as to threaten harming children.

    I love that you linked to a New Age article though – it gives us this little gem “… all numbers have been verified by one of the world’s most respected accountancy firms.” .. I assume this would be KPMG, the firm that dropped them. 🙂

  9. Fear not, there is no road back for Oakbay, no new ANC president is going to go anywhere near the Gupta’s and corporate South Africa has had it’s say. They are finished in SA.

  10. CharlieTango on

    And obviously the Gupta owned New Age newspaper would be unbiased in any reporting relating to their owners….

  11. “…anyone can do almost anything with a click of a mouse…”

    But without a bank; and inoperative internet banking, which button can they click?

  12. Anthony Bingham on

    Just reading through the comments, it appears that you might be an apologist for the Guptas? And by extension the vile and loathsome ANC?

  13. Eric Martinsich on

    Anthony I support the ANC and have long before 1994. thank God we no longer have the NP. Vile is actually the danp merger

  14. Laughing Leprechaun on

    The one in either Panama or the Cayman Islands. Either one will do. After all it’s been established old 783 has connections there too.

  15. One would hope that Mr Gordhan has blocked whatever is left of the GuptAccounts from moving anywhere soon

  16. Laughing Leprechaun on

    Hope you’re right but de jure I don’t think he can – they haven’t been found guilty in an SA Court; yet!

  17. I think their sudden, unannounced, disappearance – with loads of suspicious baggage and which took everyone by surprise – is reason enough to assume there’s something fishy being hidden.

    Questions:
    Was their baggage thoroughly searched?
    What did it weigh?
    Are the x-ray views recorded, for future scrutiny?
    Were they properly cleared through customs?
    Did they notify Home Affairs that they were emigrating?
    Did they get treasury/tax clearance before leaving?
    How much currency was cleared for the journey?
    Has their business friend, (our Dear Leader) mentioned anything to indicate he knew they were getting out?

  18. So how much more damage to the country will you tolerate before you become ashamed of supporting the ANC?

  19. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    Brainless Ricardo… I see you’ll never be ashamed of supporting LOSERS.

    Oh BTW, can you remind me who appointed The Honourable Mogoeng Mogoeng Justice of the Constitutional Court;

    All the systems that are in-place and are serving South Africans are credit to the ANC;

    And I’m really glad that we’ve now also given clarity to the masses on what the concept of “Forgiveness” is to the fork-tongued that remain amongst our midst.

    Black people should “Forgive” the oppressors for all the suffering endured throughout an evil system like apartheid;

    …they should just “Forgivingly” move on and embrace a new “Rainbow Nation”;

    But of-course “Forgiveness” cannot apply to the non-security upgrades transgressions of the leader of the ANC who also happens to be the president of the country; and enjoys overwhelming support within the structures of the ruling party that operate accordingly as dictated by the democratic principles which allow the people to govern.

    Now that we are ALL clear on “Forgiveness”

    …we can ALL move forward now and forget about this “Rainbow Nation Forgiveness Fallacy”

    …and lets see who will come second best.

  20. Anthony Bingham on

    Can you wipe the spittle off your mouth, take a deep breath and try and write a (short) coherent paragraph that we can all understand. Thanks.

  21. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>Can you wipe the spittle off your mouth, take a deep breath and try and
    write a (short) coherent paragraph that we can all understand.

    Why are YOU still even bothering to read when clearly there’s nothing that would be within your limited understanding of the majority rules principle.

    I get it… you just can’t help being an avid fan, now can YOU.

  22. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    Eish!! Brainless Ricardo…

    …it just wouldn’t be YOU without the mention of drivel, LMAO!!

    [Hey… Google drivel synonyms; and surprise me in your next reply :)]

  23. Sahara also supplies the state with computers since 2004. This was initially a 3 year contract and still running on a month to month basis since then SITA Tender 285/1

  24. Greg Mahlknecht on

    I’m not sure why the baggage is relevant? If you’re going to move money around, you don’t do it in baggage, this isn’t a 1970’s spy movie 🙂

    Were they actually emigrating? I would imagine they held a dual citizenship so could come and go to places their Indian passport allowed, as they pleased?

    I’m just happy they’re gone. Let’s hope they sever ALL ties. I don’t care how much money they got away with, so long as they stop meddling, cut all ties and leave Zuma out in the cold. The sooner we all forget about them, the better.

  25. The baggage is only relevant in that it suggests that it was an “emigration”, rather than a short holiday abroad.
    As you correctly say – good riddance; but it would be nice to know whether – or how much – money is involved.
    Even the money is relevant only in its explaining the extent of the “capture” of SARS; and of the Dear Leader.

    As far as I know, none of the Guptas has yet explained the sudden exit, so it’s all just speculation. But what are the chances we’ll see them next week…?

  26. Supporting ANC is tantamount to saying I support dishonesty, fraud & ineptitude. And therefore renders supporters themselves morally questionable. Do ANC supporters support crime? No, of course not? Well then stop being hypercritical.

  27. Greg Mahlknecht on

    > Do ANC supporters support crime?

    They actually do, by voting in crooks time after time. Some might call it forgiveness, but it’s really condoning their behaviour. With forgiveness comes humility, accountability and penance. None of that has happened in the ANC. If I was Zuma and these poor ignorant citizens kept voting me in year after year and “forgiving” me, I’d also be constantly laughing at them. He he he.

    Zuma and this gang of crooks is the best thing that has ever happened to the opposition, but unfortunately the worst thing that’s ever happened to the citizens.

  28. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>If I was Zuma and these poor ignorant citizens kept voting me in year after year and “forgiving” me, I’d also be constantly laughing at them. He he he.

    Have YOU considered that perhaps he is laughing at an ignorant Greg Mahlknecht who together with his band of so-called opposition in a system of democratic rule; have absolutely no hope of ever winning over the masses, whose votes they require given the same condescending attitude that is typical of a racist supremacist… he he he he.

  29. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>Do ANC supporters support crime? No, of course not?

    …and that would be spot-on

    >>Well then stop being hypercritical.

    You are the one that’s being hypocritical or lacking the understanding of what is meant by – The People Shall Govern

    The system of voting for a party requires that ALL structures of that party be engaged democratically to effect appointments to positions of leadership; and thus respecting the principle which dictates that – The People Shall Govern

    For as long as the opposition continues to be hypocritical on this fundamental principle of democratic rule, they will never be able to defeat the ANC.

  30. Greg Mahlknecht on

    >have absolutely no hope of ever winning over the masses

    Facts prove otherwise. Look at the increasing numbers supporting the opposition each election.

    Why always bring race in to anything? I abhor incompetence, it has nothing to do with race.

  31. Greg Mahlknecht on

    >The People Shall Govern

    That’s the thing… they aren’t though. Many lifelong ANC stalwarts are recognizing this and more and more speaking out each day. They’re trying hard to educate the masses how democracy works, and get back on a democratic track. Hopefully they succeed. Sure, with Zuma and his Sycophants out of office it’ll make the ANC a lot stronger and more difficult for the opposition to pick off votes, but I don’t really care if the ANC stay in power if they do a good honest job.

  32. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>Hopefully they succeed.

    The 104 years track record of success is testament to the committed resolve of the ANC to always remain – The People’s Party; and NOT a party for Ego Maniacs and individuals who become bigger than the organization.

    It is this resolve which you have also correctly pointed out – that is certain to;

    >>it’ll make the ANC a lot stronger and more difficult for the opposition to pick off votes,

  33. Greg Mahlknecht on

    Let’s hope you’re right and ANC do the right thing. Fire Zuma, weed out his sycophants and start serving the people and not themselves.

  34. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>Facts prove otherwise. Look at the increasing numbers supporting the opposition each election.

    What the facts prove is that the opposition doesn’t; and will never have the same united resolve which has now been restored to the people’s party.

    In successive elections where the ANC have found themselves being on the back-foot; the collective of opposition parties struggled to capture just over 35% of the votes –

    …and now they will be coming up against a united ANC campaign force that is more determined than ever before to ensure that internally there will be no divisions; and that going forwards the people’s party, moves with one voice to make SA a better place.

  35. We have all heard the saying that birds of a feather flock together, meaning that the company you keep reflects your personality. A smart person surrounds himself with other smart people. If you hang out with (& I add vote for) trash, you will be perceived as trash.

  36. Greg Mahlknecht on

    > a united ANC campaign force

    Haha nice one. Thanks for ending my week on a nice joke like that. He he he.

  37. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    Well, there’s something in the “Queens English” that has reference to one who will be having the final laugh.

    So, laugh now… and I’ll save my – He he he; for after the elections.

  38. But we know Vusumuzi is delusional regarding ANC. The NP & supporters were the same in their thinking, but fell they did. The ANC if it remains in its current guise will too. And may I add something that cannot be argued – we have all heard the saying that birds of a feather flock together, meaning that the company you keep reflects your personality. A smart person surrounds himself with other smart people. If you hang out with (& I add, vote for) trash, you will be perceived as trash.
    Vusumuni, you are probably a nice person, perhaps misguided as many ANC ‘out of loyalty’ voters are. I hope you will direct your obvious intelligence & strong thinking towards bringing change within the ANC. Then maybe even I will vote for them.
    Right now, I cannot & will not support what is so obviously wrong!

  39. But unfortunately the people do not govern. Zuma & cronies and do so entirely as it suits them & friends. Fortunately it is becoming very apparent much of it is not what the people of the country want. Are you happy with Zuma’s mess? Probably not, but it is obvious you will vote for them again & give them licence to carry on as usual.
    As for DA. Excellent direction – the Western Cape speaks for itself.

  40. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>but it is obvious you will vote for them again & give them licence to carry on as usual.

    Please inspect your ballot paper and check with the IEC for specimens of previous ballot papers… in SA elections, we all Vote for a preferred political party.

    The political parties need to have structures and processes that determine the leadership and the party which can, at this level within the organization; appoint through a democratic election process, the most popular candidates that will be representing a constituency that brings a majority of votes at the polls, is the party that’s guaranteed to enjoy the most success at every election.

    >> As for DA. Excellent direction – the Western Cape speaks for itself.

    That would depend on who you’re speaking to… but I can assure that the DA hasn’t done those that would praise them in the Western Cape any favor by ignoring the needs of the same people who have the numbers that would change things at the polls when up against a resolute ANC that is focused on victory.

  41. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>If you hang out with (& I add, vote for) trash, you will be perceived as trash.

    There was an occasion once when I happened to be in a friend’s vehicle, who unfortunately doesn’t have his radio dial set on the station which is the largest in Africa – Ukhozi FM.

    Anyways… there was an interesting discussion, on his preferred radio station, with an umLungu chap who had decided that he would take all his family and live in the township for a month; traveling to work using taxis and experiencing the life that his maid had to live in SA.

    The take away from that I would have to conclude is this;

    If many more mLungus’ could do as that chap did then there wouldn’t be such utterances of blatant ignorance from the Rainbow Nation Fairy-tale;

    >>birds of a feather that flock together,

    …describing other people as –

    >>hanging out with (& I add, vote for) trash, you will be perceived “by the same ignorant persons” as trash.

    I must say that YOU are however, very consistent with the same utterances that we’ve come to expect –

    …and that also came as no surprise to the masses when they were uttered by Penny Sparrow;

    So, NO surprises as to the reasons why the opposition will never ever be winning over the masses to vote for them.

  42. >>direct your obvious intelligence
    Don’t confuse intelligence with education, especially in this case. Vusimuzi is educated, but clearly can’t (or won’t) think logically or clearly—that would require intelligence, which Vusi clearly lacks.

  43. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    Brainless Ricardo…

    You have once again in your attempt at showcasing your intellectual competence, failed miserably as has always been the case with all your comments.

    >>Don’t confuse intelligence with education,

    I do believe you’ve confused yourself in the quote that says;

    “Don’t confuse schooling with education”

    One is always being educated by the greatest teacher in the universe which is “life’s experience” and that process never ends; whilst scholars with schooling, complete various qualifications that invariably get them a worthless piece of paper, at times referred to as a certificate or even a degree.

    When “life’s experience” is your teacher, you are always being educated and the results of such an education are certainly proven to empower one to always become a Winner…

    …you know;

    In the same way that the ANC, always Wins with such educated persons that actually understand how democracy works through real “life experience”;

    It really does seem like a lot of money was wasted on your schooling, seeing as in all your comments there is a lack of intelligent thought; “Hmmh!” …how shall I put it???

    Ah yes! Just drivel from a brainless Ricardo.

  44. William Stucke on

    > All the systems that are in-place and are serving South Africans are credit to the ANC
    Err, no. I think that you’ll find that most of them are as a result of CODESA and much work thrashing out the constitution between many parties. How well has the ANC been supporting Chapter 9 institutions, like the Public Protector, recently?

  45. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>I think that you’ll find that most of them are as a result of CODESA and much work thrashing out the constitution between many parties

    Let’s please learn the correct context for the use of word “many”;

    Whilst 16 parties may have signed the commitment, what CODESA was in reality; …was a way for one ruling party, the NP, to hand over control on terms that worked best, given the situation that the government of the day found itself in; having been forced to succumb to the pressure from the liberation movement – namely the ANC.

    There really was only two parties with actual power;

    The NP, which could’ve opted for going the route of taking up arms and leaving a scorched country that would have had to be rebuilt; …and the ANC, which as historically documented took the decision which lead to the peaceful transition that we had.

    There’s no arguing this fact, that – without either one; the NP or the ANC, a democratic new SA, would not have been realized;

    There’s also no doubt that had the other 14 signatories been absent; as was the case with some prominent organizations;

    …the negotiations would’ve still been possible with a definite outcome based on just, the then ruling NP as well as the ANC; guided by the ANC’s Freedom Charter on which –

    >>All the systems that are in-place and are serving South Africans are credit to the ANC

    Can you even name the other 14 signatories without looking them up???

  46. Just two questions:
    1 Did the Guptas flee because they know their godfather’s days are numbered?
    2 Did the financial institutions sever ties because they know something more about Panama or other tax havens, that we still learn about in good time?

  47. I will bookmark this comment….. for after the elections.
    The ANC seems to be struggling to fill stadiums where they previously did fill them, and this is according to ANC controlled SABC

  48. Are you even aware of the fact that in 1983 us “whites” had an opportunity to vote for change in this country, and most of us voted “yes”, and that is when change began.

  49. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>Are you even aware of the fact that in 1983 us “whites” had an opportunity to vote for change in this country,

    So YOU continue to undermine the very people who represent the masses and also have a greater insight into the politics of this country when it comes to the actual situation on the ground;

    You’re referring to the “yes” referendum vote that brought about the Tricameral Parliament from 1984 to 1994, established by the South African Constitution of 1983 – that only served to disenfranchise the masses which were and still are in the majority;

    Well if that’s what you refer to as change, it’s really going to be taking YOU an awfully long period of time before YOU can win over the masses.

  50. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    Well, perhaps YOU can remind me of a gathering of the DA that managed to have 42K in attendance; I do remember that in the previous elections that focused huge budgets on the Gauteng, they held a gathering at The Dome; …and even local hip hop artist Cassper Nyovest was subsequently able to fill-up The Dome and draw more people than the DA to the same venue.

  51. My “yes” vote started a process. I was not in control of the process, only my “yes” vote. It is and was a process that brought us to where we are today, much faster than the ANC could have while sitting and shouting overseas, or planting bombs that killed more black people than whites.

  52. The DA does not claim to have the overwhelming support of the masses, they are striving to achieve that, but personally, I think Malema will overtake them and if sanity prevails, together they can rule this country on matters that do matter, like they did by going to court to show Zuma and the ANC the ways of their blatant disregard for the Constitution.

  53. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    And that – I would have to say baas Ferdi; nicely sums up why YOU will never ever be winning over the masses to vote for the opposition. LMAO!!

  54. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>I think Malema will overtake them and if sanity prevails, together they can rule this country on matters that do matter;

    Sanity would be for them to rather focus their attention on passing a motion in parliament that would require parties to have secured a minimum of 15% of the votes, to be represented in the national assembly.

    In so doing, there would most likely be a situation where there is indeed a relatively strong opposition that emerges to the left; and also to the right of the central ruling party…

    …but whilst their focus still remains on the now monotonous anti-ANC criticism of our democratically elected government, they are sure to remain LOSERS given the system of proportional representation.

  55. Percentages of votes and conditions attached to it can’t just be “passed” in parliament or the national assembly. You don’t even know your own Constitution. ANC parliamentarians don’t either. They thought their majority could protect Zuma. The Constitutional Court, the ultimate custodian of our Constitution told them otherwise. This is not just about Zuma.
    It is all about our Constitution!
    You are correct in your comment that there is a need for “a relatively strong opposition to the left and also the right of the central ruling party”
    For this very reason even minorities are important as they can form coalitions. In many European countries, the governments of the day are made up of coalitions as we speak. When applied correctly and with respect for the Constitution, this system WILL work.

  56. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    >>Percentages of votes and conditions attached to it can’t just be “passed” in parliament or the national assembly.

    The constitution itself can be changed with votes that are more than 2/3, so you would perhaps want to revisit this foolish remark of yours below;

    >>You don’t even know your own Constitution. ANC parliamentarians don’t either.

  57. Not my job to win over the masses. The ANC is doing a darn good job of pushing them away though. So it will be up to them to abstain from voting or vote for another party.

  58. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    OMG!! Still living in that “stoned-world” of believing that there’s going to be something different in how the masses vote…

    Please, …it’s not only laughable but also sad to see how some opposition parties are attempting to mimic the people’s party in an attempt at the –

    >> job to win over the masses.

    On Juju’s return from a recent visit to the UK, he was quoted as having said that Madiba was a sellout;

    …and this statement of his, had obviously been taken out of context from the situation which he sought to highlight that has long existed on the ground, even prior to the passing of Madiba.

    I’d have to say, …listening to the launch of the campaign manifesto of some opposition party – that a more true statement; given their attempt at leveraging the ANC’s campaigning style and legacy of former leadership, would be –

    >>The opposition is doing a darn good job of pushing them away though.

    You are completely clueless as to what the sentiments of the masses on the ground are – towards certain issues; and that is why I’ve also said that you will be falling behind the EFF, who actually know better.

    There are approximately 1.2mil ANC members; and in the last elections, just over 11mil people voted for the ANC – The volunteer network, which does NOT rely on media propaganda, is capable of mobilizing in excess of 10mil people who are not ANC members to Vote for the people’s party;

    …we do this, baas Ferdi, because we know the situation on the ground and we don’t try to leverage-off other parties; and bring into play legacies that are certain to get you an undesirable backlash from the masses.

    Didn’t YOU say that YOU would bookmark this page…

    …now why don’t YOU patiently reserve further comments, for after the elections; when YOU will be wiping the egg off your face in the same humiliating manner that the slate that lost in Mangaung was also served the humble pie that goes with being disconnected from the masses on the ground.

  59. “OMG!! Still living in that “stoned-world”
    Stoned, maybe, but certainly not stone-aged….
    Prediction:
    Juju will be the biggest gainer followed by the DA, and the ANC biggest overall looser in the coming local elections if they do happen in time, only question that remains are the exact %’s….

  60. Vusumuzi Sibiya on

    Try this prediction from a seasoned WINNER…

    DA will bleed most of the gains of disgruntled voters from the ANC to the EFF; plus they’re still going to contend with losing the votes of such racists within to the VF after now having placed a “Black Puppet” in leadership.

    All opposition is going to be severely impacted by the voters’ roll requirements; and as was the case with floor-crossing, they are only going to see this in hindsight.

    The ANC has demonstrated in almost every by-election held; that it has certainly stemmed the back-footing position and has been making significant gains even in opposition strongholds… thanks to the EFF exposing the opposition for what it really is; and all the opposition clowns pathetically following the lead of the EFF.

    The ANC will be remaining stable with some surprise gains; the DA will get to feel what it’s like to be COPE; who will be disappearing off the political landscape and the people’s party will remain as has been; and will always be the case, in the position of power, to get independents to work with them –

    …and it will be the independents who will be the biggest gainers because no one trusts the clowns that have been showing-off their “Ego-Maniac” true characters in parliament over a single issue that has now been concluded with what was in any-case, an outcome that would’ve in all probability required that the president to pay back the money;

    …and so there’s really nothing which was done by the so-called “opposition clowns”, during all that time, to serve the people.

  61. The Guptas mistake was in not owning any BANK. Imagine if they had the foresight in owning a majority stake in even a small bank. They would still be in operation